I apologize if this is a stupid question- It's so basic and yet I've been confused about it from the start of studying... Ok, all we can measure aerobically in people in the real world is heart rate. Without specialized equipment we can't measure oxygen volume consumed during exercise. So why is it that all the guidelines are given ranges in terms of oxygen consumption and not heart rate? I know the beloved Karvonen formula will give my target beats/minute for someone based on their own resting HR, but all the guidelines for aerobic training in the text (p.227) give me ranges of "functional capacity" (oxygen uptake), so how are we to actually monitor/ measure oxygen consumption in the world? I can memorize these ranges - but why if I can't measure them while soemone is exercising??? Is there something I'm missing here... TIA friends!
I apologize if this is a stupid question- It's so basic and yet I've been confused about it from the start of studying... Ok, all we can measure aerobically in people in the real world is heart rate. Without specialized equipment we can't measure oxygen volume consumed during exercise. So why is it that all the guidelines are given ranges in terms of oxygen consumption and not heart rate? I know the beloved Karvonen formula will give my target beats/minute for someone based on their own resting HR, but all the guidelines for aerobic training in the text (p.227) give me ranges of "functional capacity" (oxygen uptake), so how are we to actually monitor/ measure oxygen consumption in the world? I can memorize these ranges - but why if I can't measure them while soemone is exercising??? Is there something I'm missing here... TIA friends!
Hi Vonnie,
I had the same questions and Shawn (akyoda) helped answer it.
My understanding is that when you use the karvonen formula (w/ resting heart rate involved in the equation) what you get is considered to be close to what is called VO2R (VO2 Reserve).
VO2R is what you get when you subtract resting VO2 from VO2Max. Of course we couldn't actually figure out VO2 Max (and therefore actual VO2R) as personal trainers but using the Karvonen formula for heartrate we can "estimate" Percent of VO2R by estimating a percent of Heart rate reserve and then we add back in the resting heart rate.
So first you'd do 220 minus age (or actual max HR from a Graded Exercise test) minus Resting heart rate which give you the Heart Rate reserve.
Then multiply the percentage of intensity times the Heart Rate Reserve.
Then add back in the resting heartrate).
Or to put in in a formula:
220-age=Max HR
Max HR- RHR= HRR
% of intensity X HRR + RHR= THR (Training Heart Rate or Target Heart Rate).
I hope I explained that correctly and in a way that makes sense.
To me, the way VO2R is worded in the book is confusing (it says something like VO2R which was formerly VO2 max.... or something like that, I don't have the text in front of me). In the text it makes it sounds like they renamed VO2 Max (like "the artist formerly known as Prince" :)).
Scott, Thanks for the explanation and laugh (needed about now)- and thanks to Shawn (akyoda) too. So- if I have this right... I should just accept that the guideline ranges refer to both % HHR and % O2 uptake? It doesn't say that anywhere- The text is so inconsistent when giving these guidelines- in one paragraph they say, 50-85 % HR reserve or VO2 max, yet in another paragraph, they give a range as 60-70 % functional capacity (maximal oxygen uptake). Yet, no where are all these terms compared, defined, or explained in one place. Lame text (IMO), and I'd like to study other resources- but as we know- the test is based on this text! OK, back at it. Thanks and take care!
Scott, Thanks for the explanation and laugh (needed about now)- and thanks to Shawn (akyoda) too. So- if I have this right... I should just accept that the guideline ranges refer to both % HHR and % O2 uptake? It doesn't say that anywhere- The text is so inconsistent when giving these guidelines- in one paragraph they say, 50-85 % HR reserve or VO2 max, yet in another paragraph, they give a range as 60-70 % functional capacity (maximal oxygen uptake). Yet, no where are all these terms compared, defined, or explained in one place. Lame text (IMO), and I'd like to study other resources- but as we know- the test is based on this text! OK, back at it. Thanks and take care!
Hi Vonni,
I too get VERY confused by the text (The Douglas Brooks book is MUCH better, but as you said, not the text the exam is based on).
Though, even Douglas Brooks, in the "Programming" book often says HRR or VO2 MAX( not VO2R). Perhaps they changed the way they reference it after he published that particular book. I think that they used to say that HRR (Karvonen calculation) and VO2Max were the same but now use VO2R (I'm probably not helping with all this...am I ).
I believe that the HRR and VO2R calculations are pretty much considered to be equivalent (that is 50% of HRR is considered to be 50% of VO2R etc.), but don't just take my word on it.
Anyway, below I copied the section from my summary on intensity (where I went thru and organized all the scattered stuff from the chapter in one place). I still don't quite get why they gave us numbers like 64/70% rather than just giving us one of those two numbers. I guess it just means that "it could be as low as 64% OR could be 70%.... NOT helpful or clearly explained at all!!!!
Like you said, it would've been nice to have that defined (as in 64% for a beginner w/ one risk factor and 70% for a beginner w/o any risk factors..... I'm just making stuff up here as an illustration so don't try to remember that :)).
Anyway, here's the compilation of all that stuff: ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- d. INTENSITY:
ACSM Recommends: an intensity range of : 64/70%-94% of max HR or 40/50%-85% of H.R.R or VO2R (note: 55-90% Max HR approx 40-85% of VO2R)
50-85% of VO2 max range is the goal for cardio benefits.
Lower intensities: 50-60% VO2 max and HR Max Reserve for beginners w/ lower cardio respiratory fitness.
People w/ very low fitness levels can benefit from training intensities as low as 40-50% of VO2 max.
Exercise intensities as high as 75-85% VO2 Max and HRR may be more appropriate for apparently healthy, higher fitness classifications.
Overall: average exercise intensity (apparently healthy adults) usually between 60-70% VO2 Max.
Moderate intensities had positive effect on health related outcomes: ex. 40%-60% of VO2 max (in some cases even lower intensities, for example, the diabetes prevention program (DPP) had results w/ as low as 30% VO2 max)) .
Minimum duration, intensity and frequency for health enhancement (reduced risk of degenerative disease). 30 mins. of moderate intensity (40-59% VO2R) on most days.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------- It IS a bit of a cacophony of intensity numbers.
I believe that for sure you want to remember the 50-85% as the goal for cardio benefits
also
30 minutes of moderate intensity (40-59% VO2R) on most days.
That 60-70% is probably more of an ideal range for healthy adults (and that's listed as VO2 Max not VO2R..... unless I made a typo, I'll have to double check that).
The irony of this whole thing is that RPE is in my opinion the best way to initially judge (relative intensity) and use the percentages of HRR as a secondary way to do it (which is pretty much my understanding of what Douglas Brooks recommends).
This way the person is within a reasonable comfort zone, yet you can still have a tangible way of knowing what that actually is in terms of Heartrate.
I don't know if ANY of this was remotely helpful, but I totally understand your frustration. I wish it was organized better in the text.
I hope that one of the other folks on the board will verify if what I'm writing is correct :)
I asked our instructor last weekend about this. If you've got HRR, you've pretty much got a correlation with V02Max, yep.
Hi Nora,
Did he say anything about VO2R?
That is the thing that seems so convoluted with all this. Douglas Brooks often refers to VO2 Max as correlated w/ HRR but then I see other spots where they say VO2R as correlated to HRR.
But clearly VO2 Max and VO2R are as different as Max HR and HRR.
Further, I spoke to April at ACE later today (she's the one there who knows her stuff)...and she confirmed HRR (from karvonen calculation) is equivalent to VO2max - (but as Scott mentioned- what was VO2max is now sometimes called VO2R (oxygen uptake reserve)- pg 218. So all 3 are equivalent essentially!
Also, I asked April why the guidelines are given in terms of oxygen volume when it can't be measured without special equipment...she said "it's the gold standard to discuss aerobic capacity using this measure". That's all.
I feel so much better that I got this straight and I could not have done it without you all. You're the bestest!!!
Ya know, I am at 100%-annoyance-max w/ this text, I think I'm going to cram for the next few weeks and schedule the test for July 17th. YEAH.
Our instructor said (honestly): You are NEVER going to use that. Know it, but don't agonize over it, because the client doesn't care. Get their low and high target heart rates where they should be and the rest falls into place.
Do know the V02 Max for the test, though, Vonni. The one I remember is converting from absolute to relative (and quite honestly, this is a good one to know if you are working with people transitioning from bicycling to running). But odds are it will never be used in your profession. If your clients want to know their V02Max, ask their doctor to administer it.
Actually, I'd love to know what mine is! My resting heart rate is 42 and my blood pressure is 118/20.
lol never going to use it?!?!? I use it all the time...of course I use an estimated submaximal VO2 max test as it is the ONLY real way to measure improvement in my fitness or my clients fitness without sending them to get a VO2max test
what I use is the AAstrand submaximal fitness test here is the link http://www.health-calc.com/content/view/1/10/
what kind of instructor doesn't periodize and doesn't use VO2 max testing???? I am glad I haven't taken that seminar!!!! That is very dissapointing to hear no wonder ACE has fallen out of the ranks as a top fitness organization!!
-- Edited by akyoda32 at 15:43, 2008-06-27
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If a person wants something that they have never had, they have to do something that they have never done. - Shawn Fears, CPT
Yikes ... I was wondering about that diastolic, too, LOL.
Regarding heart rate zones/V02 max, etc., I just took a hands-on ACE personal trainer workshop a few weeks ago, and the ACE master trainer that conducted that 2-day workshop was fantastic. He is the dept. head for personal traineing in his gym, where they do V02 testing (mask, etc.). I think perhaps Tekva's instructor (I have no reference to who he is) is an anomaly. I got no indication from the ACE workshop that these things were not important or taken lightly. Quite the opposite. Here's a link to an interesting article about heart rate zones/anaerobic threshold, etc.:
You guys know what I meant.
